UPS Returns Possible New Scam
So a customer requested a return for a high value item and the system provided a prepaid UPS label. The tracking number shows item was dropped off last Wednesday. Since then there has been zero movement, which is impossible for a UPS package as there are always consistent updates. I've noticed at some UPS stores around me there is now a self scan device and you just drop the item in the box. Is it possible they scanned the item and just walked out?
If this is so, then Amazon needs to adjust there auto-refund policy that once it shows the item depart the shipping location to then give a refund, not when it is dropped off. It's also possible the UPS store or wherever lost the package or it's sitting somewhere in the building without anyone's knowledge. Still, the policy needs to be changed.
UPS Returns Possible New Scam
So a customer requested a return for a high value item and the system provided a prepaid UPS label. The tracking number shows item was dropped off last Wednesday. Since then there has been zero movement, which is impossible for a UPS package as there are always consistent updates. I've noticed at some UPS stores around me there is now a self scan device and you just drop the item in the box. Is it possible they scanned the item and just walked out?
If this is so, then Amazon needs to adjust there auto-refund policy that once it shows the item depart the shipping location to then give a refund, not when it is dropped off. It's also possible the UPS store or wherever lost the package or it's sitting somewhere in the building without anyone's knowledge. Still, the policy needs to be changed.
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Seller_CyGI7lF1437gx
I would think that would be a carrier claim and fight that with UPS. That being said, does Amazon give insurance on high-value return labels, or do you only get the standard $100? Seems like 2 parties will need to address this issue. Interesting to see how Amazon and UPS address the potential fraud that can happen with this.
Seller_R2dP7Hunjcdj0
In my experience Amazon only RFS packages that are less than $100.00 in value.
Packages valued higher do not get automatically Refunded, so the Seller still has the opportunity to examine the Return before any Refund is issued.
If there is no movement it is possible that events occurred as you surmise, but Amazon MAY decide that it is POSSIBLE that the carrier simply "Lost" the package once it was in their possession. As unlikely as this seems, you should anticipate Amazon siding with a Buyer over a Seller.
The GOOD NEWS is that you do NOT need to Refund UNLESS you receive back the Return. Even if the Buyer files an A-Z Claim, the fact that you never received the Return SHOULD protect you.
Once 30 days have passed from the point of First Scan, IF no movement is displayed on the tracking history you may consider closing the Return by hitting the "Complete Return" button and choosing the "Item Not Returned" option.
Either way, you should not let this stress you.
Hope this helps.
Good Luck!
Seller_BE3xPpZWhTS9Z
FWIW, I have had several UPS Ground shipments that show tracking to the local UPS hub then nothing until it reaches a hub close to the destination. It gives me a date and time for the next update.
This is new to me and may mean there are less frequent scans happening.
Seller_R2dP7Hunjcdj0
I am sorry you are under the threshold that allows for RFS.
I HOPE you receive back what you are hoping to get.
I find it interesting that you conform what I have been saying for quite some time; that Amazon does NOT consider a scan from a Self-Serve Kiosk to be Proof of carrier gaining possession.
I did not know that even the Post Office will not recognize this as a valid transfer of possession. I had to chuckle when I read that...
To those who still insist on using the Self-Serve Kiosk, or the Drop-Box, or even the Scan-Sheet: Amazon ONLY recognizes a Physical Scan of the package as PROOF of transfer of possession to the carrier.
IF that first scan occurs AFTER the close of the "Ship-By" window scheduled by Amazon, the shipment is considered "LATE", and forfeits Seller Amazon A-Z Claim INR Protections.
Bottom line: It pays to stand in line and get the packages scanned.
IF you regularly have a LARGE amount of packages, I am sure you can make arrangements with the Post Office Branch Manager to have your packages physically scanned.
You need to inform them that, as an Amazon Seller, the packages MUST be physically scanned by the carrier BEFORE the close of the "Ship-By" window in order to be protected.
Good Luck!
Seller_CyGI7lF1437gx
Unfortunately, this just happened to us today. $1500 shipment sent to NY, return opened, label created, and pick-up scan from FL, no movement for 30+ days. The customer (buyer name different than recipient name) filed an AtoZ claim today and the refund was immediately granted claiming the item is being returned.
The question for @Dominic_Amazon is, if this is on the carrier for a lost package, does Amazon fully insure the return UPS packages? there is nothing in my return settings to request to insure my return packages.
Seller_3wzBczgcWe0Ch
It does not matter to Amazon if you drop off an order at the UPS store and they scan it. Amazon will not recognize this as given to UPS. It is not considered given to UPS until UPS actually scans the package when they pick it up from the store. One would think a return would be treated the same.
Seller_gatjkdfPmzT4O
The return was scanned and stated as dropped off at UPS and the refund was given to the customer, but there was no movement for almost a week until I called the local UPS store, which advised me it was dropped off at the local customer center based on the tracking information. She then gave me the local number for the center I called and the rep there said she would try to track it down and contact the sender if needed. That afternoon there was finally movement on the shipment except it was 30 miles away from the original drop off location. Here's what it shows in the tracking timeline on Amazon before it left:
Jan 18, 2024 04:15:11 AM UTC
Carrier picked up the package.
Jan 24, 2024 05:29:00 PM GMT-08:00
Carrier received the package.
Jan 29, 2024 04:53:00 PM GMT-08:00
Package arrived at a carrier facility.
On the UPS tracking site it says the following:
Shipper created a label, UPS has not received the package yet.
01/17/2024 8:23 PM
Drop-Off
01/24/2024 5:29 PM
We have your package
01/29/2024 4:53 PM
Most likely the package was just lost somewhere and they found it, but still weird that it shows up 30 miles away with no update in between.
Again, my concern is with the self service kiosks at FedEx, UPS, and USPS and whether those scans count for the first scan refunds and what if there is no movement after cause the customer just takes the package back home. If someone from Amazon would chime in on this for us it would be really appreciated.
Seller_i4DsYZVUgBKOw
Happened multiple times over Black Friday time ish. We lost a ton of money due to auto authorize. We email customers for proof and Amazon refunds even though label never used just printed. It is out of control and sellers have no support anymore. Call support and it does not matter that shipping bought with Amazon anymore either. Just auto refund the scammers.
Seller_uegrw9t4BikOA
You should apply for an exemption for the high ticket item so there isn't an auto return. The buyer will do a return request then you can provide the label with appropriate insurance/signature to them or have the customer pay for their own return shipping. Here is a link on how to update your high ticket items.
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/help/hub/reference/G202174980
Request exemption from prepaid returns for seller-fulfilled orders
Seller_2uoYSkGwvN3nk
Thank you for posting this and alerting us all to this loophole in the auto-RMA authorization policy. I do hope AMZN will tighten the requirements on returns before a refund is issued. Its a small ask, with huge capital loss implications for small businesses who can't afford to burden this level of fraud. Secondly, as a 30+ year IT Sec Pro and an E-Commerce Veteran of 26+ years, don't hesitate to call the local Police Department and tell them you suspect mail fraud. Report the issue, the packages you haven't received back and merchandise and provide your evidence to the local PD. Mail Fraud is a Felony offense. It also helps alert local police to financial fraud, mail fraud, mail theft, drug houses, gang activity, organized crime, and lone actor theft. The local PD appreciates calls like this who would love to have these kinds of tips to know what homes/buildings to keep an eye on. You have a mailing address, names, tracking numbers, merch descriptions and more. They will go knock on those doors and investigate. Eventually, these things will catch up with the bad guys. And yes, do follow up with the security camera's at the local UPS store, as the local PD can get a warrant for the video footage. This is how we caught the people stealing our daughter's college food money we sent by local outbound mail box. The perps later took her Costco membership gift card (which never left town) and went and used it to buy gas at the local Costco and after alerting the local PD, they were able to get the video footage from Costco's security cameras at the pumps, including a license plate. We stopped by and followed up with Costco membership desk just on a whim after 10 days had passed and nobody received their graduation gifts or our daughter's Costco gift card. So glad Costco was able to track the gift cards use. We received our financial restitution in the matter a few months later with the help of the DA's Office. So report every single incident like this to Amazon and both your local PD and the local PD where the suspect is engaging in illegal behaviors. This is also a reason to carry business insurance, as they will also cover these losses while you fight the matter. If its a large enough loss, the insurance carrier will fight the matter legally also since they want to be reimbursed for the claims against the policy. Don't be complacent. Do give it a week or two for reasonable mail delays. But beyond that, be ready to fight. You can win! It costs you nothing but a little time to report it.
